Dr. Peter Breggin on Psychiatry and Antidepressants

May 19, 2020

 

Dr. Hotze interviews world-renowned physician, author, and medical-legal expert Dr. Peter Breggin to discuss the current state of America’s mental health crisis. Peter R. Breggin, M.D. is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist and former Consultant at NIMH who has been called “The Conscience of Psychiatry” for his many decades of successful efforts to reform the mental health field. His work provides the foundation for modern criticism of psychiatric diagnoses and drugs and leads the way in promoting more caring and effective therapies.

Podcast Highlights:

10:08: And in that process it becomes so clear that every single thing that’s fundamental to psychiatry is wrong.

11:42: That program died as psychiatry became totally drug-oriented, totally sales wing of the pharmaceutical industry.

12:04: Now, the only program is whatever is dictated at the time by the pharmaceutical industry who pays off all the leaders in psychiatry to dance to their tune. It’s that bad.

12:27: What’s the most dangerous thing you can do today? And the answer is go to a psychiatrist because you will virtually always, unless there’s some extraordinary exception, the psychiatrist within 10 minutes will make up his mind what drugs he’s going to suggest, or push on you, and lie about to get you to take them, and I mean lie. Lies like you have a biochemical imbalance. You need to take this for the rest of your life, neither of which is true.

13:00: There are no biochemical imbalances, and there are no rest of your life studies of drugs.

14:06: They have them on three or four psychotropic drugs just by walking into a doctor’s office saying that you feel fatigued and tired and think something’s wrong with you.

14:53: With the collusion of the FDA, literally millions of patients have suffered severe and debilitating side effects, even suicide, from the use of antidepressants, or the withdrawal reactions that can occur with the discontinuation of these antidepressants.

15:12: Antidepressants are addictive, and I want you to talk about that, Dr. Breggin. And they do create withdrawal reactions seen in a vast majority of patients who try to stop using them. So you can’t stop. If you’re on antidepressants, folks, don’t stop it. You can’t stop it cold. You have to be weaned off that very slowly…

15:47: All these antidepressants, the SSRI antidepressants, and the serotonin-norepinephrine uptake inhibitors, SNRI antidepressants, are all knock-offs of a drug that’s very common on the street, and it’s called cocaine.

18:12: The misleading, and confusing thing about the antidepressants is that they don’t bring people a lot of pleasure. What they basically do is they blunt your emotions.

20:20: Another basic point I want to make is it will be helpful to realize that all psychoactive drugs are neurotoxins. We have no drug that makes the brain whiz along better than ever. It’s too complicated, the brain.

27:02: I’d like to say that the drug companies are a legalized drug cartel, no different than the drug cartels down in Mexico, but the drug cartels there are illegal.

29:04: And Chantix is the drug most associated per prescription with violence.

Podcast Transcription:

Stacey: Welcome to Dr. Hotze’s Wellness Revolution. I’m Stacey Bandfield, here with Dr. Steven Hotze, founder of the Hotze Health & Wellness Center. We have a great show today. We have Dr. Peter Breggin. He’s a psychiatrist, and Dr. Hotze calls him a contrarian. He is not your typical psychiatrist, so we’re really intrigued to hear what he has to tell us today, Dr. Hotze.

Dr. Hotze: Thanks so much, Stacey, and thank each one of you for joining us on Dr. Hotze’s Wellness Revolution Podcast and YouTube. Glad to have you here. Remember, I believe that you and everyone needs to have a doctor, and a staff of professionals who can coach you onto a path of health and wellness naturally, so as you mature you have energy. You have vitality, and you’re enthusiastic about life no matter what the circumstance is. And, remember, enthusiasm comes from the Greek word which means being filled with the spirit of God. So when you’re enthusiastic, God fills you up, and you’re excited to be alive because He’s put you here, and you have a purpose in your life, and it’s exciting to be alive.

We’re excited to be alive, and I hope you are – I know that our guest today on the program, Dr. Peter Breggin, who is really a giant in natural approaches to health when it comes to psychiatry. He’s been on the forefront, on the cutting edge of exposing the adverse effects of all these psychotropic drugs that have been produced by the pharmaceutical companies have been promoted and fostered by the psychiatry profession, and given to patients whom have made them feel terrible, and do terrible things.

Dr. Breggin is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist who has written numerous books. He’s been called by many on my side of the aisle the conscience of psychiatry because he’s exposed not only the adverse effects of these harmful psychotropic drugs, but, also, psychotherapy that dealt with convulsive therapy where they literally shock people. They put paddles on their brains like they do on people’s hearts, and they shock them. It’s called electroconvulsive therapy. He’s exposed that and the harmful effects of that, as well as lobotomies. There was a series of times when people acted crazy, guess what? The psychiatrist sent them their good buddy who was a neurosurgeon and they cut off their frontal lobe. It was called a frontal lobotomy.

And you may have heard this said in the old days, I remember where this was said when somebody acted up we’d kind of kid among ourselves and say, well, he needs a good frontal lobotomy, doesn’t he? So, but it’s not funny, but that was a joke we used to say when people acted up, but that’s a terrible destructive procedure. And Dr. Breggin exposed this, and basically shut this down in the Western World, so we’re so glad. And by the way, Dr. Breggin, has written numerous books. And I want to just give you the titles. There are several of these: Toxic Psychiatry, Talking Back To Prozac, and Medication Madness, which is just wonderful.

Stacey: Excellent, excellent book.

Dr. Hotze: Just a wonderful book: Medication Madness: The Role of Psychiatric Drugs in Cases of Violence, Suicide, and Crime. It is a must-read, and you can see how much of the problem that we’ve seen in society with increased suicide rates, destructive harmful behavior, even homicides, have been directly related to the use of these psychotropic drugs, particularly SSRI antidepressants like Prozac, and drugs like Effexor, and others. He’s also written Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal: A Guide for Prescribers, Therapists, and Patients. He’s written Guilt Shame and Anxiety: Understanding and Overcoming Negative Emotions. He and his wife live in Ithaca, New York. Now New York is part of the union, and it is up northeast somewhere.

Stacey: I think so. I think I’ve heard of it.

Dr. Hotze: We’re down here in Texas, so we’re glad to have someone in New York thinking logically. By the way, Dr. Breggin, before I bring you on in my introduction here I want to tell our audience that when I was in medical school, I graduated from medical school in 1976 at the University of Texas in Houston, while I was in medical school, you have to do a rotation through psychiatry. Now I may not have told you this, Dr. Breggin.

Dr. Breggin: No, I didn’t know this.

Dr. Hotze: But I read a book while I’m in medical school by Dr. Thomas Szasz, who Dr. Szasz wrote a book called-

Dr. Breggin: The Myth of Mental Illness.

Dr. Hotze: The Myth of Mental Illness, so I read this book before I took psychiatry. So I go into psychiatry, and, look, I’m not a person that doesn’t speak my mind. And they started coming up with all this, I call it crap, about people aren’t responsible for their actions. They have a mental illness. It’s not their fault. They’re sick. We need to treat them with drugs. And it absolved people of their personal responsibility, which Dr. Szasz says is ridiculous. It’s the myth of mental illness that absolve people of personal responsibility. So I advocated this during my psychiatry course to the psychiatrists.

Dr. Breggin: Oh, boy.

Dr. Hotze: And guess what they promptly did with me? They failed me in psychiatry, and then they went to the board and tried to throw me out of medical school. Thank goodness, I had good relationships with the surgeons who were on the board, and they supported me, and they kept me on, and I ended up graduating. I did have to retake psychiatry, though, clinical rotation in psychiatry. Two months before I graduated from med school it was kind of the make-or-break, and at that point we had a truce. They knew I didn’t believe what they said. I was simply going to write down the answers, and I was going to nod my head, and we were going to have a truce. We had a truce, we didn’t fight it out. And I ended up graduating from med school, the rest is history, but that’s why I have been so enamored, and so appreciative of Dr. Breggin’s work.

Now, Dr. Breggin, you have a very similar background to me, and how you came to the conclusion your first introduction to psychiatric medicine when you were a student at Harvard, and working at some of the asylums in that area, and what you saw, the patients and their treatment, and how it affected them. I saw the same thing when I was in med school doing my psychiatric rotation. So why don’t you talk about your first experience with psychiatric patients, and what made you decide at that point something was wrong with what was going on?

Dr. Breggin: It’s a good beginning. I was only 18 years old. I was a freshman at Harvard College, not at the psychiatric residency where I went later, and a friend of mine asked me to volunteer. I didn’t even plan to be a psychiatrist. I was going to be a professor of American history and literature, maybe a lawyer. And I went out to the state mental hospital, and it reminded me immediately of my Uncle Dutch’s descriptions of liberating a Nazi extermination camp. Big, big rooms. Dungeons filled with people. No one there to help them. Sitting around stunned looking, robotic, drugged. Later, I would find out that many had been lobotomized. This was 1954 and lobotomies were at the tail end of their heyday at that point, but somehow, and I think this is a key aspect perhaps of you, too, when I saw the conditions under which these people were living I did not think that it was because of something wrong with them. It was so clear that no one could be sane, or healthy, or happy, or successful, or get well living under such horribly oppressive conditions.

And as I got to know the place better, I became leader of a large program of volunteers. We’d bring in 200 Harvard Radcliffe volunteers, and just begin to change the hospital quite a bit for the better. I just didn’t see any big difference between me and the patients. I mean, this was the key. I mean, I thought to myself, I mean, when I saw an ex Radcliffe student, they were almost proud they had a Radcliffe student lying on the floor next to a radiator. I thought to myself, “There but for the grace of God go I.” I mean, I was no stalwart to mental health at the age of 18. I knew how vulnerable I was, and I felt very fortunate to have the intelligence to read, and to think, and to work my way into an increasingly mature, still working on it, place in this world. I knew it was a hard world already when I was 18.

I think that that has been my guiding principle. There but for the grace of God go I. So when I meet my patients, first of all, I don’t look down on them. I feel grateful that they would like to come to me for help. I feel it’s a sacred trust. I want to understand what’s troubling them. Why are they suffering? And in that process it becomes so clear that every single thing that’s fundamental to psychiatry is wrong. Now at the time, interestingly enough, psychiatry didn’t look as bad as it does today. At that point there was room for a person like me who was saying, well, let’s take a psychosocial approach.

I actually set up a program where those of us who were really active, and I knew each, and I could vet everybody, 15 of us, we got a clinical program where we could each see our own patient, and be supervised. I was already threatening. You talked about the threats you were undergoing as a medical student, and here I’m just by now maybe a sophomore at college, and I’m saying to the superintendent I think that we can help your patients if we each get one of our own. And the superintendent is telling me I run this place, not you. And I’m looking at him and saying, well, I think Boston State Hospital, which was a different hospital, I think that they might be interested in the program.

And so I’d already brought so much positive press coverage to the program that he said, “All right, you can do it.” And we ended up, we didn’t know this would happen, getting almost every single patient out of the hospital. This is written up as the start of toxic psychiatry. And then we got lauded on a national level, and so on and so forth. Well, that can’t happen now. That program died as psychiatry became totally drug-oriented, totally sales wing of the pharmaceutical industry. The psychosocial wing died. The psychoanalytic wing died. The community psychiatry wing died. You could get residencies in all these kinds of programs. Now the only program is whatever is dictated at the time by the pharmaceutical industry who pays off all the leaders in psychiatry to dance to their tune. It’s that bad.

And just one last sentence to sum it all up. So I’m now in the place being a psychiatrist, and for years and years and years my latest blog is what’s the most dangerous thing you can do today? And the answer is go to a psychiatrist because you will virtually always, unless there’s some extraordinary exception, the psychiatrist within 10 minutes will make up his mind what drugs he’s going to suggest, or push on you, and lie about to get you to take them, and I mean lie. Lies like you have a biochemical imbalance. You need to take this for the rest of your life, neither of which is true. There are no biochemical imbalances, and there are no rest of your life studies of drugs.

Dr. Hotze: Right. Well, listen, it’s not-

Dr. Breggin: Let me just finish with this one thought, and that is I’ve now written, Dr. Hotze, that the most dangerous thing you can do is go to a psychiatrist, and you should look for other solutions if you’re suffering.

Dr. Hotze: Well, this is a key point. And, folks, it’s not just psychiatrists. Look, we do health and wellness here at the Hotze Health & Wellness Center, and the individuals that come to us are about 75% women come to see us at the Hotze Health & Wellness Center, and of that about 3/4 of those women, three out of every four have been to see just a local doctor, their family doctor, or internist, and they have taken, or been prescribed antidepressant therapy, antianxiety medication.

Dr. Breggin: Absolutely.

Dr. Hotze: I’m talking about Prozac, and all the derivatives of Prozac. I’m talking about all the antianxiety drugs that are out there, and then sleep medication. They have them on three or four psychotropic drugs just by walking into a doctor’s office saying that you feel fatigued and tired and think something’s wrong with you.

Dr. Breggin: That’s absolutely right, absolutely right.

Dr. Hotze: Now you make a great point about the pharmaceutical companies because they perpetrated an incredible fraud upon the medical profession, and upon literally millions of patients through their deceptive research, their business practices, their advertising regarding the safety and effectiveness of antidepressants, which began really in the early 1990s. And this deception by the drug company has been perpetrated on the American public. I want you to listen to this. With the collusion of the FDA, literally millions of patients have suffered severe and debilitating side effects, even suicide, from the use of antidepressants, or the withdrawal reactions that can occur with the discontinuation of these antidepressants.

Antidepressants are addictive, and I want you to talk about that, Dr. Breggin. And they do create withdrawal reactions seen in a vast majority of patients who try to stop using them. So you can’t stop. If you’re on antidepressants, folks, don’t stop it. You can’t stop it cold. You have to be weaned off that very slowly, and we could talk about that later, but, doctor, let’s talk about the antidepressants, particularly the SSRIs, which, folks, is a medical term for Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. By the way, I’m going to make a point here. All these antidepressants, the SSRI antidepressants, and the serotonin-norepinephrine uptake inhibitors, SNRI antidepressants, are all knock-offs of a drug that’s very common on the street, and it’s called cocaine.

All these drugs, if you look at their molecular formulas, are very similar to cocaine, but the drug companies have put on some side chains, and then they’ve done their studies and tests, and then they prescribe these various drugs, which are highly addictive. And they’re meant to be that way because if you’re a drug company you want people to take these drugs the rest of their lives, and they can’t get off of them. What happens, people say “I tried to stop it, but, oh, I feel terrible, and I had these shooting lightning bolts in my brain, and I had these terrible thoughts, and I felt horrible. I ached all over, so I took it again, and I felt good, so I really must need it.” That was withdrawal, folks.

So, talk to us about Prozac, when you first got involved, the increased incidents of suicide when Prozac came out in 1988, and the work you did to go before the FDA to try to get them to warn people about the side effects of these drugs, and how long it took you in your work before the FDA finally was willing to put a black label warning on these antidepressants. That’s tremendous work you did there, and that took a tremendous amount of, just determination, indomitable spirit. And I want to thank you for that, for what you’ve done, all that.

So talk about that. Tell us about in the beginning when Prozac first came out, and the increased incidents of suicide, how you got involved in reversing this, or at least bringing it and exposing it to the public, and at the FDA, how you got them to at least reverse policy on labeling their drugs.

Dr. Breggin: Yes, let me think a minute and organize. I want to start with a distinction between two different kinds of addiction. In one kind of addiction, the drug brings pleasure and stimulation, and a euphoria almost whenever you use it. And that’s more the amphetamines, and the cocaine drugs, and then when you withdraw from them you crash, and just have a horrible withdrawal. The misleading, and confusing thing about the antidepressants is that they don’t bring people a lot of pleasure. What they basically do is they blunt your emotions.

Dr. Hotze: Right.

Dr. Breggin: So the doctors get away with saying these aren’t addictive because the patient doesn’t crave usually more and more and more. I mean, by the time they start craving more and more it makes them so toxic they’re lying in bed.

Dr. Hotze: Right.

Dr. Breggin: So what makes them so addictive in a very basic sense is exactly what you said, and that’s the withdrawal. It’s not the pleasure. It’s not the high. Although, some people will get a high from the drugs, that’s not the basic effect. The basic effect is blunting. And people, then when they realize they’re blunted, and they don’t have the quality of life they used to, if they try to come off them abruptly they go into a terrible crash not unlike the amphetamine crash. It may be harder to come off the antidepressants than the amphetamines, or even cocaine or heroin. They cause people all kinds of neurological terrible problems, and they can feel they’re crazy, they get shocks in the head, and weird feelings, and they can get very depressed. They get suicidal. So these are drugs, as Dr. Hotze said, are very responsibly telling you that you can’t just stop, and come off.

I’ve written the only medical book, it’s also written for the public. I write everything for everybody, but, basically, it’s a medical book called Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal. No other psychiatrist has really gotten out there and even written that kind of book. It’s just astonishing that all they’re trained in now is in how to give the drugs. They get angry at their patients if you go to your psychiatrist and say “I heard Dr. Hotze and Peter Breggin on the television, and this is what they said.” You’ll be treated the way Dr. Hotze was treated in medical school. They try to either fire you, or take you off right away so that you’ll have a terrible time. They’re not likely to say, well, let’s consider this.

Another basic point I want to make is it will be helpful to realize that all psychoactive drugs are neurotoxins. We have no drug that makes the brain whiz along better than ever. It’s too complicated, the brain. We can do good nutrition, it will help. Exercise will help. All kinds of modalities from acupuncture and meditation to just eating a more plant-based diet will tremendously help your brain, but don’t trust the idea that you can take something specific to change your brain function. From my viewpoint at least, there may be differences about the brain that is too complex for that.

And what happens when you smoke marijuana, or drink alcohol, or take a psychiatric drug, whatever good effect you are feeling is because your brain has been disabled. Your brain has lost its edge. With the antidepressants it generally loses its edge in a very global subtle way that I call medication spellbinding. So you may be on the drug from anywhere from a week to a few years before everyone around you kind of knows something’s the matter, and you think you’re getting old, or you just don’t have your old enthusiasm, and it never dawns on you, and your doctor won’t tell you that this is actually the grinding loss of your faculties that occurs with the chronic exposure to psychoactive substances. They’re just not good for the brain. Again, the psychiatric drugs, they’re harder to come off than marijuana, for example, and you need to be real careful about it.

And about all this stuff I did, I really thank you for that wonderful description. I have little to add to it except to say that one of the ways I got so involved in this is that I was asked to be the single scientist for all the combined lawsuits against Eli Lilly for Prozac. So a federal court appointed me, at the request of a committee of lawyers, to be the one person who would go, and to find out everything I was to know about Prozac in about 1993 or ’94, which was still pretty early on. And I got the opportunity as a result of that to interview FDA officials. I took courses that were intended for drug company executives, and FDA officials, and people like  that. I read everything there was. We had the first big trial and one of the reasons that Prozac got through it unscarred, basically, was that at the first trial, Prozac people, Eli Lilly, fixed the trial. They bought the other side to throw the trial. And I was the expert there.

Dr. Hotze: Wait a minute. Tell me. They got the plaintiff attorneys to throw the trial?

Dr. Breggin: They got the plaintiff attorneys to throw the trial in exchange for a huge settlement in the multimillions for their multiple plaintiffs. It was a shooting where a man went into his place of work, and shot and killed a number of people, and then killed himself. It was also a very bad case, and that was prearranged. See, the cases were being brought by the lead attorney on behalf of the whole consortium of attorneys as the first case. And I’m looking at it and saying this is the lousiest case I’ve seen. The man had threatened to kill people at work before he ever went on the drug. So I said I wouldn’t even testify that the drug caused it, per se. I’d only testify that the drug clearly made him psychotic in the first week, and was stopped, but he went ahead and killed people because he was psychotic now in his violence.

There was a lot of going back and forth about that, but even before I went to trial, months before it was already fixed because they did 50 or so depositions, Eli Lilly. I was never told that. I was never told about any of the research that was being done outside my own research. And then, this is really funny Dr. Hotze, they wouldn’t even practice me for the trial to get on the stand. They wanted me to go there cold. They didn’t give me any questions. And I finally wrote up the night before, and sat with six lawyers at dinner and said, “This is a bunch of questions, and you better ask me these.”

Dr. Hotze: Wow.

Dr. Breggin: And I talked to my wife, and she said, “It’s fixed, honey, it’s fixed.” I said, “It can’t be fixed.” Well, it was fixed, and the judge found out, but not until months later, and he reversed the verdict. We still almost had a hung jury because I gave my testimony by asking my own questions and answering them. It was quite bizarre. And still it was nine to two or three, and one more vote, and it would have been a hung trial. It wasn’t a complete, it wasn’t one of these verdicts, but that’s how bad it was. And then when the fix was discovered, the judge reversed it and said, “It was a settlement with prejudice against Eli Lilly.” Then Eli Lilly sued to get the judge removed because he wanted to know how much money had changed hands. And the next judge, imagine what pressure might have been on him, or offers. The next judge said, “It will be prejudice against Lilly to explain how much money they got.” So it was not until much later that we learned, of course, it was millions and millions.

So this is how far the drug companies go. It’s a little-known story. I do tell the story in a chapter in the book you mentioned, thank you, which is Medication Madness. I have a chapter on this story of the power of the drug companies to cheat, steal, and manipulate. One of my fears right now, politically, is that the drug companies are getting this wonderful enthusiastic endorsement from the government about how wonderful, and cooperative, and how great they are, and they’re not, folks. They are not.

Dr. Hotze: Right. I’d like to say that the drug companies are a legalized drug cartel, no different than the drug cartels down in Mexico, but the drug cartels there are illegal. They have so much money, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars in income coming to these companies. And they use that for advertising on TV to absolutely brainwash, and indoctrinate the American public into thinking that I can take this drug and be happy. I mean, you see what is the drug that they use to stop smoking? Is that Buspar, or no, Chantil?

Stacey: Chantix.

Dr. Hotze: What is it?

Stacey: Chantix.

Dr. Breggin: Chantix is one, but also Wellbutrin is used as well.

Dr. Hotze: I was going to say the Chantix, the commercial is just…you’ve got to look at that commercial. You go to YouTube online, the Chantix commercial, it says if you feel like you’re going to blow your brains out, and shoot up your family be sure to tell your doctor, but in the meantime they’re out there having fun, and they’re not smoking, and it’s what a wonderful drug this is. The side effects, I mean, it’s laughable. The side effects that they put on there and they expect you to take this drug.

Dr. Breggin: It’s horrific. We have a study of reports to the FDA per prescription of how many reports on violence. So we take all the reports of violence to the FDA. It’s done by Thomas Moore, M-O-O-R-E. You can get it on my website. I have a special free resource center for antipsychotic drugs and antidepressant drugs at breggin.com.

Dr. Hotze: Okay. That’s spelled Breggin, B as in boy, R-E-G-G-I-N. Go-go. B as in boy, R-E-G-G-I-N.com. You go there and you can purchase your books online as well, right, doctor?

Dr. Breggin: Right, and the free resource center,s you can get the Moore article under antidepressants. And Chantix is the drug most associated per prescription with violence. And that’s clearly not because people are mentally ill at just stopping smoking. Now some of the violence could be from withdrawal from cigarettes, but that was not known as a very severe problem prior to Chantix. So this is the drug Chantix, but all psychoactive drugs have terrible potentials to them because they’re messing up your particular brain, and mess up your particular brain, and you may have your particular reaction even though you’re not violent before, but your reaction could be violence to many different psychiatric drugs. Many of them now have violence warnings. I mean, how many categories? Antidepressants, mood stabilizers, the stimulant drugs all have stuff in them about hostility, aggression.

So, folks, there are so many better ways to heal yourself. It has a lot to do with relationship. My key, I say three things. Mild exercise, don’t knock your brains out, especially, if you’re older. A vegetable plant-based diet as much as you can is very, very healthy. And then relationship. Relationship with people, with nature, with God. What we thrive on is happy, fulfilling connectedness to the world we’ve been given. I have a TV show. Let me talk about that for a minute.

Dr. Hotze: Yes, go ahead. Please tell us about that.

Dr. Breggin: Real quick.

Dr. Hotze: No, go ahead. We want to know about that.

Dr. Breggin: I’ve had a radio show for years weekly, and now it’s TV, as well. And you can go to Dr. Breggin’s YouTube Channel.

Dr. Hotze: You had a bide moment there. A Joe Biden moment.

Dr. Breggin: I close my eyes and hope to God the word comes. It was a tough word, too. That YouTube is a big one. Got stuck in my tube here. We got to have a sense of humor about yourself.

Dr. Hotze: Yes.

Dr. Breggin: But my YouTube Channel is really big. It’s got a ton of free information on it. So on the 9th and 10th, April 9th and 10th, you’ll see the TV version on my YouTube. I talk on that show about how do we relate to each other when we’re all stuck together? How do we give up the aggressive, irritable, angry things that we do? How do we change the way we speak, and what kind of words can we use with each other to advance our relationship? I go into real detail about it. It’s one of the best things I’ve ever done, and I really hope that some folks will go, and it might turn this lousy virus into an opportunity for you to have a more loving relationship with the people you live with, and are sequestered with, than you ever imagined, because I put my whole heart into talking about how to communicate and be with other people.

Dr. Hotze: That’s wonderful. Now can our listening audience find this?

Dr. Breggin: Just Google Dr. Breggin’s YouTube Channel. You will be on the channel if you see a photograph at the top of a farm scene with bales of hay on the ground you’re at the actual channel. And as of tomorrow, it will be up as a part of my radio TV program every week, and it will be this week’s show. It’s a single. Many of them I interview people. Most are probably interviews, but I also do shows. I just did one on epidemic anxiety, and one on epidemic shame to go along with what’s happening to us. And this one is on talking together under confinement and stress.

Dr. Hotze: Okay, so what you could do is you could Google. Go to your browser, and Google Dr. Breggin, or type I guess YouTube Breggin.

Dr. Breggin: That will get you there.

Dr. Hotze: YouTube Breggin, B-R-E-G-G-I-N.

Dr. Breggin: It’s about talking together. Soon you’ll be able to just probably Google talking together.

Dr. Hotze: Well, we’ve been visiting today with Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a giant in natural approaches to interpersonal problems that people sometimes call psychiatric problems, and when you end up seeing the psychiatrist, that really according to them drug problems you need drugs. Dr. Breggin has a completely contrarian approach to addressing people’s individual problems from an interpersonal relationship point of view helping them solve their problems without the use of any pharmaceutical psychotropic drugs. He’s been a leader in exposing the terrible overuse and really the use of these psychotropic drugs, electroconvulsive therapy, and lobotomies that the psychiatric profession has adopted over the years. So we thank him for his work. Thank you, Dr. Breggin, for your marvelous work over the years, and your dedication to helping people have a purposeful, meaningful life without using pharmaceutical drugs, particularly psychiatric drugs. We appreciate you. We admire you. And we thank you so very much for joining us today on Dr. Hotze’s Wellness Revolution Podcast and YouTube Channel.

Dr. Breggin: And thank you, too, doctor, and I want your audience to know what courage it takes to be a man like you. Folks, you can’t imagine what they try to do to anyone from ordinary folks to radio show people to doctors, what they try to do to people who speak truth about psychiatry and the drug companies. So you’ve been very brave, sir, and I thank you.

Dr. Hotze: Thank you, sir. God bless you. We look forward to having you back on in the near future.

Dr. Breggin: God bless you.

Stacey: If you would like to find out more ways to be naturally healthy and well then you can go to hotzehwc.com. That’s H-O-T-Z-E HWC.com, or call us at 281-698-8698. That’s 281-698-8698. Thank you for joining us here today on Dr. Hotze’s Wellness Revolution.

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